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FromMarks: Current revision of proposalMarksParsonsGrowGilbGilbGilbRolfeParsonsRolfeRosdahlMarksMarksParsonsGrowMarksZimmerman
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Date2020-04-272020-04-272020-04-272020-04-282020-04-282020-04-292020-04-292020-04-292020-04-292020-04-292020-04-302020-06-022020-06-022020-06-022020-06-022020-06-02
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CommentI am hereby submitting a proposed revision to the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual (OM). This notice is in accordance with OM Clause 19, which says "Revisions to the IEEE 802 LMSC OM shall be submitted by a Sponsor member to the Sponsor no less than 30 day in advance of a Sponsor Vote to approve them. The Sponsor member proposing the revision may modify the proposed revision during the 30 days prior to a Sponsor Vote (in response to comments)."

I'm open to any comments and modifications, but I want to get the clock ticking ASAP.

Here is the proposed revision:
I support this simple modification that will negate having to define alternative electronic methods for various plenary only activities.

For clarity, you could consider adding a definition of “regular” in 5.1, for example before “in exceptional cases…”:
Regular LMSC plenary sessions shall be face-to-face.
 In 1) new text last line, delete the last “shall”.The edits would need to go deeper than that. For example, the opening and closing sessions are defined times and durations.

A plenary session is also defined to be a week, but with WG ballots to approve items for the closing LMSC meeting, it may take longer than that.

I would suggest instead that we suspend plenary rules for July in the OM (based on the changes already suggested and reviewed, pending approval of the new OM) and have the following schedule:

July 7: electronic meeting by LMSC to open the plenary.
July 7-17: WG electronic meetings and WG subgroup meetings
July 18-28: Time for any WG electronic ballots to approve actions
July 28 (and possibly 29): electronic meeting by LMSC to review WG motions requiring EC approval and to close the plenary.

At this point, trying to chase down each rule associated with the plenary and "fix" the OM (and potentially the WG P&P) would be foolhardy, IMHO.
Yes, but then you are also fixed to a week duration. And the times in the OM are not necessarily good world wide as the start times are offset by 5 hours.

A 5 hour in-person meeting to close the week may make sense when we have been in the same location and room but perhaps 2 2-hour sessions would be better for an electronic plenary.

How will we set the fee for the meeting? Are there any approved expenses for the treasurer?

How will WG's hold officer elections?

My humble suggestion is to use the suspension process until we find what works, and then codify that. Or not. It could go in the Chair's guidelines as a suggested way to hold an electronic plenary when/if it is necessary.
You can count me as a vote against all of the suggested changes as the do not address the multitude of issues for holding a plenary electronically in our rules.

The biggest problem is that it restricts the plenary to 5 days when we will certainly need more than that to finish our business.

We can do much better and now is not the time to write these changes into the OM.

The best answer is a temporary change for July to see how it works. Once we know what we might want, we can change the rules.

The edits you propose clash with other sections in the P&P, the OM and the WG P&P, for example, in your edits to subclause 4.1.3, you seem to limit the LMSC to electronic meetings only during exceptional Plenary Sessions (a term which is undefined).

You add a requirement 5.1 for plenary venues to be announced 3 months in advance, the current requirement is only 30 days (we have had last minute venue changes in the past, typically in the same city, but Dallas Airport comes to mind).
I object to redefining "plenary session" in this way, making what should be a temporary disruption a permanent change in 802 LMSC operations. It feels a lot like redefining "day time" so as to make scheduling teleconferences as easy as if the earth were flat. The earth is not flat and the important work of this standards development group requires consensus building through personal interaction. This is especially true in the earlier stages of a project. The point of emergency measures is NOT to fundamentally change how we do things, but to do the LEAST disruption necessary to meed the immediate and temporary change.

Point by point then...
On 4/28/2020 3:01 PM, Roger Marks wrote:
James,

Thanks for your stimulating comments. I've thought about them and still prefer the proposed OpsMan update.

After reviewing the rules, I think that generalizing the definition of Plenary Session gets us close to complete solution. It doesn't require reworking all the procedures in detail; we would just use the existing procedures. If there are still remaining issues that don't meet our needs, then I think that your suggestion of suspension (prior to the next Plenary Session) could be a good complement to make further adjustments.

Agree it might *seem* easy. The goal is not easy. It is to minimize disruption in extraordinary circumstances. In any event a careful review of the intended or unintended consequences of any change must be done, as always, so I contend it isn't even "easy".
I believe that we could find a time zone that would work, though it won't be ideal for everyone. It's not clear to me that we would need to collect a registration fee but, if it's decided that we need one, then I'm confident we could. I'm also confident that WGs could hold officer elections, noting that the current WG P&P doesn't specify how they are conducted. Also note that the current WG P&P provides for voting during WG teleconferences. None of this would require procedure suspension.
Voting during teleconferences is a normal part of our process for some things we do, for example, comment resolution. Since the world is not flat, finding a timezone that works for ALL attendees is impossible. There are other practical considerations. For many attendeees the face to face provides an opportunity to focus on standards work not available when in their normal work environment.

Maybe other wrinkles would show up, but I think we can iron them out.

Suspension alone is not a complete solution to the issues in front of us, of course. Suspension does not get around requirements in the LMSC P&P. For example, the terms of officers continue until we hold a Plenary Session. But, since the P&P specifies that a plenary session is "as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause" of the OpsMan, we have the power to enable the officer update process by updating the definition of the Plenary Session in the P&P.
The issue in front of is providing continuity during extraordinary circumstances. It is not to accommodate alternatives for all processes or "get around" requirements in the P&P. Using the terms of officers example, there is no reason to change the current requirements. We have procedures for temporary assignment of an officer when the office holder is unable to perform the duties, we have means to replace an officer who steps down. Changing officers during an emergency response is neither necessary nor appropriate. We have all officer duties covered during this current disruption, and the impact of holding off elections until the next face to face plenary has no detrimental impact on LMSC and WG operations. In fact, changing the process we use under the current disruption would only further disrupt operation of the WGs and has far greater potential for detrimental impact than asking the current officers to continue until the normal process can complete.


Finally, if we find that we could improve the electronic Plenary Session by differentiating it from an in-person Plenary Session, we can later change the Ops Manual again.
So I speak against redefining "Plenary Session" and strongly encourage participants to focus on MINIMAL changes to address immediate issues such as the new PAR review and approval process, which is critical right now.
James identified 13 plenary specific items in his rules deck (ec-20-63). The question is whether we want to handle virtualizing them all at once, or one-by-one. We are all busy and I would contend that developing a new rule for each of the 13 plenary specific items – even if we just pick the priority items – will take more EC effort than dealing with a virtual plenary session in the same week.

An OM change to handle the issues all at once could either be done permanently as Roger suggests, or temporarily using the new rule suspension process.

Of the 13 items identified, how many do we need to address in an emergency? The answer is not all 13. While it may be more effort to look at each, it is the right thing to do. Arguing that we should take "easy" over "right" doesn't work for me. Others may feel differently. But I would further argue that a blanket approach as suggested by Roger is NOT going to be easy. There are ripple effects and potential serious consequences. We would need to the same 13 items carefully to consider if there are unintended consequences, and perhaps other things, and if we miss something, then that will be even more work down the road.

I remain opposed to a permanent change in the definition of "plenary". I remain in support of identifying continuity issues and addressing those specifically so as to minimize unintended consequences.
I seem to be more aligned with James and Glenn,
 I believe a minimal change is a better approach.
I think we are trying to boil the ocean.
Good idea to consider the 13 items. I pulled up the list and attempted to categorize them according to whether they are subject to being "virtualized" in accordance with the rule suspension process. Here is what I came up with:

(a) subject to modification by suspension of the rules:

Modification of LMSC OM and WG P&P
Reveiw of new ICAIDs and “PARs for significant new work”
Expiration of conditional approval to forward to RevCom
Gain WG voting membership via previous attendance

(b) not subject to modification by suspension of the rules, but could be "virtualized" by providing for electronic Plenary Session:

Appointed and elected positions become effective at the end of the plenary session (unless appointed/elected and confirmed outside of plenary)
Terms for LMSC and WG officers expire at close of 1st plenary session of each even numbered year.
Elections for WG Chair and Vice Chair
Confirmation of newly appointed Hibernating WG Chair
Study Group exists plenary session to plenary session
Study Group approval and status report presentation
Study Groups are disbanded by end of next plenary after recommendations accepted.
To be part of an appeals pool, attended opening and closing sponsor meetings for 2 of last 4 plenary sessions
Hold an appeal hearing

I would say that the major item that can't be virtualized by suspending the rules is the elections and turnover.

WG officer turnover is a little unclear to me. It's covered in the WG P&P, so maybe it could be treated by suspension of the rules, but that seems pretty messy, especially for WG chairs.
I would support this as either a permanent or temporary change. However, temporary may be more palatable to other EC members.

To make it temporary, I think we can simply preamble the three OM changes to align with the recently approved PAR motion:

Moved: Due to the change of the July 2020 Plenary Session due to COVID-19 travel restrictions, suspend the following rules/procedures in the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual From 11 June 2020 until 5 August 2020:

In either case, we need to decide this before June 11th -- the date in the motion and 30 days before the July plenary would start -- so an early close EC ballot will be needed.
We are now 40 days from the scheduled beginning of the July plenary session. To meet the one month (30 days?) announcement requirement, and announce that the already cancelled Montreal venue will be replaced with an electronic Plenary Session, a 10-day ballot would require immediate announcement of the electronic Plenary session. Basically, the your proposed rules could be argued to require the electronic announcement to be made 30-days in advance because holding the virtual session in a specified time zone is a venue and therefore also must meet the 30-day deadline.

Comment 1 — A month is a variable number of days. So, “one month” should be replaced by 30 days.

Comment 2 — As a permanent fix, the change needs to clearly communicate that the “cancel the announced venue” can happen inside the 30 day venue announcement requirement.

Comment 3 — As a permanent change, it has a problem with the need to cancel very close to the previously announced plenary venue start date. That leaves us in the same situation we were in for March 2020 having to cancel because we still might be unable to get our act together to hold anything resembling a plenary session, just trying organize the teleconferences.

Because there was some resistance during the EC call, and because there is likely to be wordsmithing required, I think we are now at the point where holding a July plenary session should be done via a suspension of the rules.

1. Suspend till Aug 5 AoE (EC call Aug 4).
2. Suspend the three requirements that Roger is trying to revise.
3. Set time zone for normal plenary schedule (e.g., Monday morning opening EC, WG plenaries as normally scheduled, subgroup meetings to be held between WG opening and closing plenary meetings.
4. Other meetings that don’t have to occur between opening and closing EC or WG meetings can be scheduled as felt appropriate.
I do not support the "temporary" alternative, because the LMSC P&P (which we cannot change) says "A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual." I think that only an action to modify that subclause will change the definition. I don't believe that an action under the "Suspension of the rules" clause would alter the definition that is specifically referenced in the P&P. Therefore, I think a "temporary" action would leave some Plenary activities (the ones specified in the LMSC P&P, such as elections) in an uncertain state.

Likewise, the WG P&P says "A plenary session is as defined in the 'Plenary sessions' subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual."

I also don't think that the change is risky as a permanent one. It doesn't say that we can plan future electronic plenaries arbitrarily, only that we can revert to one in case of cancellation. I feel this is a good mechanism to have in place.
Setting aside the ‘temporary’ vs. ‘permanent’ question for the moment (I think that if we change the subclause temporarily, we temporarily change the definition, but that is debatable), Regarding the detailed proposal, there is at least one problem I see at the moment.

“All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.”

When I read this, it prohibits a working group from holding an electronic meeting under any other circumstance, even during an interim. I suggest simply ending the sentence at the semicolon. An alternative, which gets wordy, but maintains working group freedom would be:

“All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall Working Group meetings during a plenary be held exclusively electronically.”
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Response (Marks)"Regular" appears only in Change 3. An alternative proposal is to replace it there with "in-person".DoneI recognize that some Plenary Session activities have specified clock-time mandates. That's why I proposed that an electronic Plenary be held "per an announced time zone"; I think this would establish all the deadlines.Thanks for your stimulating comments. I've thought about them and still prefer the proposed OpsMan update.

After reviewing the rules, I think that generalizing the definition of Plenary Session gets us close to complete solution. It doesn't require reworking all the procedures in detail; we would just use the existing procedures. If there are still remaining issues that don't meet our needs, then I think that your suggestion of suspension (prior to the next Plenary Session) could be a good complement to make further adjustments.

I believe that we could find a time zone that would work, though it won't be ideal for everyone. It's not clear to me that we would need to collect a registration fee but, if it's decided that we need one, then I'm confident we could. I'm also confident that WGs could hold officer elections, noting that the current WG P&P doesn't specify how they are conducted. Also note that the current WG P&P provides for voting during WG teleconferences. None of this would require procedure suspension.

Maybe other wrinkles would show up, but I think we can iron them out.

Suspension alone is not a complete solution to the issues in front of us, of course. Suspension does not get around requirements in the LMSC P&P. For example, the terms of officers continue until we hold a Plenary Session. But, since the P&P specifies that a plenary session is "as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause" of the OpsMan, we have the power to enable the officer update process by updating the definition of the Plenary Session in the P&P.

Finally, if we find that we could improve the electronic Plenary Session by differentiating it from an in-person Plenary Session, we can later change the Ops Manual again.

So I still support the proposed changes.
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Change 1(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least 30 days in advance. In exceptional cases, with less than 30 days notice if necessary, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. With the exception of electronic Plenary Sessions, all active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall meet in-person (possibly with one or more participants contributing via electronic means) during each Plenary Session.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be a held by electronic means on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings shall be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings shall be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least one month in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least 30 days in advance. In exceptional cases, with less than 30 days notice if necessary, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least 30 days in advance. In exceptional cases, with less than 30 days notice if necessary, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. With the exception of electronic Plenary Sessions, all active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall meet in-person (possibly with one or more participants contributing via electronic means) during each Plenary Session.
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Reason for updateTypo correction, as indicated in boldface.To introduce the term "electronic Plenary Session" for use as a reference in Change 3.Baseline OM is [v23]
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Change 2(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:

All active Working Groups shall meet during each IEEE 802 Plenary Session. All Working Group meetings shall be exclusively in-person. Additionally, Working Groups and Technical Advisory Groups are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between Plenary Sessions, but such meetings do not count for participation credit.
(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:

All active IEEE 802 WGs shall meet face-to-face during each IEEE 802 Plenary session. All WG meetings shall only be face-to-face, electronic meetings are not allowed. Additionally, IEEE 802 TAGs are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between meetings, but such meetings do not count for participation credit. [v22]
(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:

All active Working Groups shall meet during each IEEE 802 Plenary Session. All Working Group meetings shall be exclusively in-person. Additionally, Working Groups and Technical Advisory Groups are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between Plenary Sessions, but such meetings do not count for participation credit.
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Reason for updateBaseline OM is [v23]
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Change 33) In subclause 4.1.3, change the first sentence of the second paragraph to:
The IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during electronic Plenary Sessions.
3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
The Sponsor IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during regular plenary sessions and electronically during exceptional Plenary Sessions.
3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
The Sponsor IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during exceptional Plenary Sessions.
3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
The Sponsor IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions.
3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
The IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during electronic Plenary Sessions.
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Reason for updateReplace "regular" with "in-person" for clarity, as indicated in boldface.To make use of the term "electronic Plenary Session" in Change 1.Baseline OM is [v23]
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RationaleRationale: The intention of the proposal is to generalize the concept of Plenary Session to include all-electronic sessions, in case exceptional circumstances require cancellation of a venue. The changes would allow the current procedures that are tied to a Plenary Session [except those addressed in changes (2) and (3)] to proceed without update. This includes all procedures in the LMSC Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual," and in the WG Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in the “Plenary sessions” subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual." The change also removes the hard prohibition on electronic WG meetings.
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